Garra Lloyd-Lester on Suicide Prevention and Chronic Illness - S2 E15

Stacy Griffin:  Welcome back to Autoimmune Adventures. This week, we want to pause to have a deeper and more serious conversation, one that we know is both necessary and often avoided. This week is suicide prevention week and for many people living with chronic illness, the emotional toll can be just as heavy as the physical one. Depression, isolation, and even suicidal ideation are real and often hidden struggles in our community. And that's why we're honored to be joined today by Garra Lloyd-Lester. Garra is a coordinator of community and coalition initiatives for the New York State Office of Mental Health Suicide Prevention Center. With more than 30 years in the human services field, Garra has deca, dedicated his life to creating safer and more connected communities. And today he's here to help us explore how suicide prevention intersects with chronic illness and what each of us can do to make a difference. So Garra, welcome to our show. We're so honored you're here.

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Thank you so much, Stacy and Becky, for the opportunity to be here and to shine a light on the importance of suicide prevention and hopefully helping your listeners um feel more comfortable in understanding this idea that while it's a scary and a serious topic, suicide prevention is everybody's business. We can all potentially play a role. And to me, there's there's hope in that.

Becky Miller:  Garra, for listeners who might not be familiar, could you share a little bit more about uh, the Suicide Prevention Center of New York State and what your role looks like day-to-day

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah, absolutely. Um, the suicide prevention center of New York State, which is housed under the New York State Office of Mental Health, is the public facing um, portion of suicide prevention, right? So, if somebody is receiving um clinical support, right, inpatient, outpatient, whatever that might be, if there's state dollars in and funding, um you know, there's support for making sure that those clinicians are trained in suicide prevention best practices. We know that a lot of people though that are struggling with suicide thoughts or have made attempts in the past aren't always connected with those formal clinical services.  So a lot of our work is using the public health approach and making sure that community members, schools, colleges, universities, organizations, workforces, etc. are empowered with the skills and information necessary to help someone.

So, I'm privileged for a good portion of my work to be supporting community members, local suicide prevention coalitions, organizations to help develop the skills and the capacities to support someone that might be thinking about suicide. And we also know that sometimes despite our best efforts that we might lose someone to suicide. And a good portion of our work then is also around what we call postvention. How to help support communities and individuals in the event that there is a suicide loss because uh there is no playbook for that, right? There's nothing that can prepare you for the emotional toll that a suicide loss might take. Uh and and so we work across New York State um in a variety of different settings to really again sort of help operationalize this idea that suicide prevention is everybody's business.

Stacy Griffin:  We really appreciate what you do. Um, I know that you've been in the field for decades and from the long view, what are some patterns that you've noticed around mental health struggles for people living with chronic or invisible illness?  

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Yes, a a great question. I I think there's more awareness about chronic illnesses and conditions, which is good. It's important, right? we can if if we don't understand the problems, if we don't understand the issues, if we don't understand the scope and the scale, it's hard to to do things right to help support individuals that are struggling. So, I think we have seen an increased awareness of these conditions. And I think that's led to a greater awareness of making sure that friends, family members, employers, faith communities, universities, like any anyone from a community, right? Um is empowered to know how to help somebody, right? Um that individuals with autoimmune disorders, with chronic health conditions, um can lead happy and productive lives. They might need some support. They might need some extra resources. And again, the individuals in their circles might need a little bit of knowledge and information, right, on on how best to help support somebody. Um, I think, you know, when it comes to mental health struggles, uh there are probably not surprisingly a lot of different conditions or circumstances that might cause individuals uh to struggle, right, with their own emotional well-being.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Um, and once we know that that is a possibility, then I think again that provides the potential opportunity to then help support someone, right? And to help empower the individual themselves, right? What can I do to help get through some of these rough patches?

Becky Miller: Yeah. Um, kind of along those lines, too, there's a lot of silence and stigma around suicidal thoughts, especially when they overlap with long-term illness or chronic pain and those kind of things.

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Mhm.

Becky Miller:  And what do you wish more people understood about the connection between those those suicidal ideations and that chronic pain? Those those chronic that chronic illness that you feel like you're stuck in and it's hard to get out of.

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  I think um one of probably many things that I'd want um listeners to to realize and and to understand is that if someone is struggling themselves with their own thoughts of suicide and it's being exacerbated by sort of that chronic physical pain, right? And now you have this emotional pain. Um that asking for support, sharing that struggle with somebody in your life if you have those connections, uh can be really helpful.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester: And that you know as much as sometimes it's can still be seen as a sign of weakness to reach out for help in general whether it's be with a chronic illness by itself causes suicide or if you are joining the two right um it's actually probably in my estimation one of the biggest signs of strength to reach out for help to say listen I'm struggling um I'm hitting a brick wall I don't know what to you do um for for friends, family members, loved ones, people within someone's sphere, right, that's connected to someone who might be uh experiencing chronic health conditions. Um I I think the important message is not to wait for someone to reach out, but to reach in. Um so oftentimes the messages, rightfully so, are about, well, if you're struggling with something, reach out for help, which is great. We want to empower people to do that. Um whether it be for chronic health conditions, suicide or or a combination. Um it can be overwhelming and daunting to do that to make that uh outreach to ask for help and support.  

Sometimes people can't even find the words themselves, right? And therefore one of the greatest gifts that we can do for people who are in our lives is to reach in, right? is to is to say, "Hey, listen. I've noticed this is going on. I've noticed a change." Um, and I'm worried. Right? Something seemingly as simple as that can be very powerful and I think is a great reminder for all of us, right? Um, just to um to show that genuine caring.

Stacy Griffin: I, I really love that because I think that in those really dark times of my life, it it has been the people that have chosen to reach out to me that have brought a little more light in and...

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Mhm.

Stacy Griffin:  ...reminded me that what was happening was temporary and things could get better and that it wasn't always going to be this bad. Um, and I know that with chronic illness sometimes it feels like it's a never- ending cycle. Um, and as you mentioned, some people struggle with asking.  

So, if we can't ask, what are some of the signs that loved ones might show us that we might miss if we weren't paying attention?

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah, that's I mean that's really crucial because like how would you know to even have the conversation in the first place, right? Um I you know there are a lot of fairly well-researched warning signs that um tend to be somewhat consistent across the lifespan and across different populations. Um if we see a change in mood, right? Especially if somebody is seeming to become more depressed whether they have a clinical diagnosis or not but just right being sad. um if somebody might be starting to self-medicate, right, either with legal or illegal substances, um maybe starting to isolate and and to draw into themselves more. Um changes in communication, right, are often uh indicators that somebody might be struggling emotionally, right? If we hear if we hear people saying things that have a subtext of pain behind them, I can't take this anymore. You know, nobody would miss me if I'm gone. In neither of those examples is is death or suicide mentioned, but um it could be that person's way of um inviting help for thoughts.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Uh sometimes people are engaging in in behaviors or actions that um might suggest they're struggling, right? Um and it could be reckless behavior. Um you know, doing things that objectively if we were to observe, we might think to like to ourselves, oh my goodness, like if that continues, that person might be in harm's way. Um it I think for so many experiencing thoughts of suicide, for the vast majority of individuals, suicide isn't about dying. It's about not knowing how to go on living at that moment in time or those moments in time. And so there's almost always this doubt or uncertainty, right? For many people, they might be thinking suicide is their only option. But even if it's not always consciously being aware, there's almost always a little sometimes a little sometimes a larger part of but I don't want to die. I'm not a bad person. Right? And it's that conflict that often um makes itself known through those what we call warning signs, right? And I and I truly believe the person who's in that place is doing the best that they know how to tell others around them that life hurts right now, and please help me to find an option other than acting on those thoughts.

Becky Miller:  Thank you for that. If if we see somebody that or if we're seeing that in ourselves or if we see somebody that we love that is exhibiting those um, signs, what do you think is a healthy way to check in as far as like that wouldn't be overwhelming for somebody?

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  True.

Becky Miller:  Um, I think it's pretty safe to say there's a lot of us that know people, especially when you have chronic illness, you realize there's a lot of people out there that are well-meaning, but they say very hurtful things

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Mhm.

Becky Miller:  So, what are some good things to say to check in with people that are not going to make the situation worse?

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Yeah. And and I think for many people in, in the the time that I've been privileged to be, you know, doing this work in suicide prevention, it's a calling for me. It's something that that I found and it found me in terms of a passion area.  I think that's oftentimes the biggest question in any training or like give me the words, or how what should I say, or what can I do kind of a thing. Because it is intimidating. It's scary, right? Um, and I think a couple things come to mind. One is if you're interacting with somebody that you're worried about, trust your intuition. That worry that that that spidey sense is starting to tingle didn't come from nowhere, right? There was something there. And and that's I think can be true whether you know somebody particularly well or if you've only met them a couple of times, right? you can sort of gauge if something just seems off or, or, or is concerning to you. So, so trust that intuition as a first starting point. And if you suspect that things may have gotten to a point for that person where maybe suicide's become an option, give yourself grace to realize, wow, this could be serious. And, and literally and metaphorically take a breath like before engaging with that person.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Like give yourself a moment. Okay. Right. And then um I think the good news is helping somebody or exploring this with somebody doesn't have to be complicated. It's how would you have a conversation about anything else, right? I'm worried about you. I'm concerned. Like if you start with that space, if that's your sort of north star, this worry and concern um and then have a conversation, right? What is it that you're worried about? What's what's led you to be concerned about this person? If you know, if it's somebody that you've known that has a chronic health condition and you've always had a level for of concern for them because of whatever their circumstances, then it's a fair bet that maybe something's changed recently that's increased your level of concern. And so trying to be specific with that, right? And just I think that can be a great starting point. Like, I've noticed you, right? I've noticed something's changed. And you know what we teach in suicide prevention is whatever we're noticing might not have anything to do with suicide prevent, suicide at all whatsoever.  Could be totally far removed, but it could be.

And so, the only way to find out is to ask if what we're concerned about is connected to suicide. So for for for the outside looking in, I think that can can be um a process, right? Um to to try to engage somebody. If you're struggling with those thoughts yourself, um again in a similar vein, give yourself grace to say, "Wow, things have gotten so bad that like suicide's become an option." Right? To process that can take a lot. Um, and think about who are those trusted, safe individuals in your life that you could talk to. And and I know for some people they don't identify, they might not identify like somebody that they would feel comfortable talking to. Um, but we know that there are 24/7/365 resources like 988 um that you can call, text or chat and um they will try to help you sort of come up with um a plan in terms of how you can help keep yourself safe from those thoughts.  

Stacy Griffin:  I think that we are very blessed to have options, but I also think that uh there is also this stigma that exists. You must be broken if you're feeling this way. Um, I remember someone actually telling one of my friends while they were in the middle of serious suicidal ideation, you just need to stay strong. You just need to buck up and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Mhm.

Stacy Griffin:  And they were so dismissive.

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah.

Stacy Griffin:  Um, what do you recommend when someone is in real emotional distress? Because I think people automatically go to the "buck up, you're going to be fine." And that is not what you should be saying to someone in crisis.

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  We we wouldn't say that to somebody who's in the midst of experiencing a tornado going through their community, right? Um or or fill in the blank with with another example. Um and so right I mean although I, I feel that we have made progress as a society in terms of addressing suicide and how we talk about it, we still have work to do, right?  

Um I, I think um the the messages around um you know people who are in severe emotional distress um and, and crisis um, one of the things that we can do is acknowledge that right and and as human beings oftentimes I, I think I like to I like to believe that more often than not we want to try to help people, right? If somebody's in pain or discomfort, whether it be physical, emotional, or both. I think many of us want to be able to alleviate that, right? Which is a good thing, right? It's it's admirable. Um, however, I think oftentimes, especially if there's a new type of pain or it's it's getting worse, that before we get into quote "fix-it mode," one of the best things that we can do is acknowledge how lousy that is. Um, and not, you know, people don't want to be fixed, they want to be acknowledged, right? Um, now that's that's not to say that if I'm struggling physically because of a chronic condition or I'm struggling emotionally or both, it doesn't mean that I don't want some some something to get better, right? Absolutely.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Um, but I think sometimes we we jump to solutions maybe a little quicker um than than is warranted, right? Um, I I have an adult child who uh will be 32 in October who struggled with chronic health conditions for more than half of her life. And she knows the work that I do for a living, which I'm, I'm fortunate. And she's come to me with her own thoughts of suicide in the past. Um, not knowing how much longer she could take her own physical struggle and, and and she's got some uh emotional stuff thrown in for good measure. Um, and while I'm grateful I have the information in the background that I do, what she needed right then and there was just for somebody to listen to her talk, right? And I've seen that play out in a lot of different circumstances, right? Um, yeah, there might be things going on that could benefit from additional resolution, right? whatever that might be, medical intervention, psychiat, but in the moment, and this can be really hard and I and I want listeners to understand this, right?  

Um, if somebody is emotionally distraught where suicide has become an option, it, it's not unusual to want to say, how can we stop this from happening? That's important, but let's also consider like dialing things back, slowing things down a little bit, right? Um, so I, I, I hope that at least provides a little um, possibility in terms in terms of possible approaches.

Becky Miller:  Well, one of the ones I know that I had a friend that would say to one of her children that was struggling with that and and I don't know I would love your take on this is she would acknowledge their pain but then she would always say "thank you for staying," cuz as a mom that was... is that an okay thing to cuz I don't like I, I thought that's wonderful in one way, but it's like I didn't want it to feel manipulative to the person, I guess it would depend on what they were going through for...

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Yeah, I, I mean I, I, I can understand the sentiment and I think um I, I've heard a quote before.  I'm not sure who to attribute it to. something to the effect of, you know, one of the hardest things I've done today is decide to stay alive for people who are experiencing thoughts of suicide. And I, you know, because it takes a certain amount of strength. And so on the on the flip side of that, like acknowledging to a loved one or somebody you care about that it's really hard for you to be here right now, like, and I'm thankful that you are, you know, I can I can imagine um that that that could land well, for lack of a better term. Um I, I, I think sometimes as human beings we do the best that we can and sometimes we make a mistake with what we say even though the intention is is to try to be you know um supportive and healing. And I also believe that if we make a mistake with our words that a we're probably going to know about it as soon as it comes out of our mouth. And that oftentimes, even in a serious situation, um, if we have a good enough relationship with that person, we can probably also like, "Oh my gosh, what did I do? I'm so sorry." Right? And and dial it back and say, "You know what? I was worried. I said the wrong thing. Can we start again?" And, you know, more often than not, I would like to believe that most people are going to be forgiving and uh sort of allow the conversation to progress. If your if, if your demeanor and your tone of voice is caring, even if you say something that might not land well, I would like to believe that many instances we could sort of regroup.

Becky Miller: Yeah.

Stacy Griffin: I think that support is is vital to forward momentum for people who are suffering. They just need to know that they're supported. And we talk a lot about the importance of support systems in our podcast because when you have chronic illness, a lot of people outside of what you're experiencing have no idea what you're going through. And I think it's very much the same with mental health. If you've never had suicidal ideations, it's hard for you to understand how anyone ever could.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Mhm.

Stacy Griffin: 

But it's not about fully understanding. It's about being willing to support.

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Mhm.

Stacy Griffin:  So here's my question. Do you think that peer support and chronic illness support groups are helpful for these kind of things? Do you find them to be effective as part of prevention?

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah, that's that's a great question and the short answer is yes. Um, so some of my work in New York State is helping support uniform personnel, police, fire corrections, EMS, 911 dispatchers, veterans, uh, around wellness and resilience and suicide prevention because we know that those populations are disproportionately affected by thoughts of suicide and suicide behavior. Um, and one of the strategies is peer support, right? Um, if you know for somebody who wears the badge or wears a uniform, if you are at a place where you're willing to reach out for help, I might be a well-intentioned suicide prevention guy, but if I've never worn the uniform before, um, I may not have that same ability to connect, right? And so that peer-to-peer um can be hugely impactful and empowering, right?  

Um, to know that I'm not alone, right? and to know that there's other people who may have shared similar experiences, right? Not exactly the same, but similar experiences and the same is true in in other settings. So certainly with um individuals with chronic illness, right? Um, it's I think it's important, right, to have trust and a good relationship with your healthcare providers and with your family and and other circles of support. But, uh I can imagine a heightened sense of belongingness and not being alone if I have somebody who's walked a similar walk than me. So that peer support can be crucial, right? And and I can imagine also with chronic conditions, it can be hard to navigate. Like if you wanted to do it in person, you might have just barriers that might get in your way. So then you have to sort through what does a virtual world of peer support look like, right? Um but I think for people who might feel disconnected from friends or families, um taking a chance on peer connections can be um life-altering. 

Becky Miller:  Similarly with that idea of peer groups working together, um you've worked with coalitions bringing people across together across fields. Um what advice would you give to healthcare providers or wellness leaders who want to better support people that have chronic illness?

Garra Lloyd-Lester: I, I think part of it is um educate yourself and listen to your patients or or you know listen to TEDx talks like listen to stories um in in the work of suicide prevention and a lot of other works Right? There's evidence-based programs and strategies to do things, but there's also what we refer to as suicide centered lived experience. Right? This idea of nothing about us without us. Um, we need to make sure that as we're developing tools and strategies and resources, we're li, we're listening to people who have experienced suicide thoughts in the past, who've made suicide attempts and are still alive um, and, and suicide loss survivors. We need to listen to folks. So I think in a similar vein um as in the health care system in general right need to educate ourselves about these conditions and about the best forms of treatment but we also need to listen to people right and listen to their experiences speaking from firsthand experience with with my daughter um and she's had to learn to navigate the health care system like in her early teens um she's not always heard, right?  

Um or there's just other complicating factors that sometimes prevent her from getting the help that might be the most helpful at the moment. Um, and I think sometimes that's because healthcare providers are busy, right? And they don't always have the opportunity to take a step back and to listen and to learn. And I, I think when it comes to the idea that we all have a role to play, I think listening to people, right, is is crucial. Like what is their experience like? Um and if somebody is seeking support for their pain management, not to assume that they're med seeking, right, but like what what is it that they're looking for and to ask questions, right? And I know it's a busy field and there's all these complicating factors. Um, but helping and learning doesn't have to be that complicated, right?

Stacy Griffin:  Doing this kind of work can be quite heavy. So, what helps keep you going and gives you hope?

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah, I um I really appreciate that question. Um, I, I try to integrate into any of the workshops that I do that the topic of self-care. I'm not always allowed because that's not my focus, but I think self-care um is uh, important for all of our work, right? Um, one of the things that personally keeps me going is knowing that I might have an impact by something that I've said or done or been a part of and not ever knowing that I had that impact. Um, and so, I've had examples over the years where somebody will send me an email um and say, "Hey, Garra, you know, I just wanted to thank you for something that you did years ago and it really made had an impact or whatever." I'm like completely forgotten about it, right? and it didn't seem like a big thing at the time. Um, and those types of examples um for me uh continue to sort of be a motivator to to say, "Wow, like I I'm just doing what I hope is the right thing to do and and is well informed and thoughtful and intentional and caring." Um, and sometimes you can have a huge impact on somebody's life without ever realizing it. Um, and that that to me is hopeful.

And so it's, it's one of my guiding stars is, you know, to continue to try to try to do well. Um, and for some people that you interact with, it might be a random interaction um or an ongoing interaction, but that might be the thing that that person needs at that moment, at that time to make a positive decision, right? Um, and I don't need to know the that impact all the time, but to know that I might have that is for me very empowering. Um, it also is it's hard. You know, people who don't know the work say, "Wow, suicide prevention. That's got to be really hard and sad." I'm like, "Well, sometimes it is." But more often than not, it's it's about hope, right? And when when we talk about suicide prevention, I think something else for your listeners is suicide prevention can't be exclusively stopping somebody from acting on their thoughts of suicide. 

I mean, at at its core right that is a part of suicide prevention but um you know people in this field in the work you will hear oftentimes suicide prevention has to also be creating the conditions of a life worth living, right? And so I think it, it's not either or it's both and and so um I think that's a being a part of that conversation is important um and then you know for me personally I um introduce myself sometimes as a recovering introvert. Um I, I'm around people all day um electronically or doing trainings. I love it. I feed off of it. Um, but then at the end of the day or the end of the week, I need to like disconnect and not be around people. So that's my part of my self-care. Um, other things too.

Becky Miller:  I love that you brought up self self-care because that is something we talk about a lot on our podcast and the importance of that that and sometimes that's hard obviously when you have a chronic illness.  Um, but recognizing you have very little battery to give. if you take care of yourself, you'll be able to give more later.

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah.

Becky Miller: You'll have more for your family and other people, if you take care of yourself first.

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Mhm.

Becky Miller: But, um I also love that you talked about making a difference in ways that you don't know because that was something I remember my father one time telling me the importance of saying thank you even when you think it's not a big deal because it could be a big deal to the other person. And I had a very personal experience with that my second year at college, I was it was probably the one first time in my life where I was truly depressed. I was going through depression, having some real struggles and um somebody came up to me and just said - I had I had given a talk in church - and they had said something about the talk, you know, made a difference to them, made their day. And and normally when I was in a healthy mental space, I would just been like, "Thank you. That's  great. I'm glad that helped you. But I was in such a low space like, I actually started crying because it was that point where I was like, "Oh my gosh, I actually did something that made a difference," you know? And when people are having that kind of an emotional low, you never know what and I think it's important to be genuine, but you never know how simple a thank you can be. You know, people don't realize if you if they've made a difference in your life. I think that's huge. I think it's definitely worth worth a note. Um, and so, thank you for bringing that up. Um, kind of along that, too, as as we're talking about people with chronic illness that might be feeling hopeless, that might be struggling, what would you want them to hear from you today that would be the big takeaway for them?

Garra Lloyd-Lester: Yeah, that's a great question for somebody that might be feeling that way currently or that's felt that way in the past or, you know, and And you know, thoughts of suicide often sort of fluctuate, right?  It's rarely a static um feeling state. But you know, I think it goes back to something I mentioned before in terms of how to help somebody, but is to start by acknowledging it like, "oh, oh wow, like I'm feeling this way." Um, and in in in that acknowledgement is an understanding that I'm not broken, I'm not wrong, there's nothing wrong with me for feeling this way, right? Um you know, and to consider asking yourself you know if if I'm feeling this way if I'm having these thoughts, can I keep myself safe from them? Like at its core a lot of helping support yourself or helping support somebody else that might be struggling with thoughts of suicide is often through the lens of safety, right? And safety can be a number of different things. Can I can I keep myself safe from these thoughts and how can I help keep myself safe from these thoughts? Um, you know, considering who's in your mental rolodex, like who can I reach out to? Um, right? One of the best strategies for a lot of people that are that struggle with thoughts of suicide is a safety plan, right?

So, think about emergency preparedness, right? You, you've done the fire drills, you know where the batteries and the waters are in case of a disaster. Um it's it's stuff that you practice that you hope you don't ever need to access, but if you do, you know where it is. A safety plan for somebody experiencing thoughts of suicide can be somewhat similar in nature, right? What are the things that might activate me that might make matters worse? What are the things that are soothing and comforting? What are the things that I should avoid? Who are the people I can reach out to, etc. um the time to develop something along those lines and and typically it's done with a health care provider, right? But is when you're not in that state, but even if like you're having thoughts for the first time and it scares you and it catches you off guard, which wouldn't be surprising. Um you know, again, sort of say, okay, um I'm feeling this way. and you know beginning to identify first off validating that that's how you're feeling right, and then, ideally thinking about all right who can I tell like who's a safe person for me to communicate with.

Stacy Griffin:  I think that's really great. Um, I know it was certainly helpful for me. I had a good friend who told me once that she had a box of truffles that she kept hidden in a place in her house where she knew no one would find them but her. And when things would get really, really bad, she would go and find one of them and eat it. and she would hyperfocus on the joy of consuming that chocolate and remind herself, I can do this a little bit longer. I love this enough that I can do this a little bit longer.

Stacy Griffin: And she had friends laugh at her, but I got it. I understood that sometimes it's just that physical mooring that you have to have, that connection to the good things about having a body, the reason why you want to stay.

Um, now I have a difficult question. Not that any of these have been easy, but this one's particularly hard. What advice would you give to people who have lost someone to suicide?  

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Then Um...and, and thank you for surfacing that because I think I don't think we can have the conversation in a sense of completeness if we don't talk about the the fact that sometimes despite our best efforts, right, somebody is going to die by suicide. Um, and I've had the good privilege and honor of knowing many people who consider themselves lost survivors in in my now now 40 plus years. Forgot to update that. Um, and um, in many regards it's the conversation can be similar. It's it's in part being there, right? being present, knowing that if you're in a position to support somebody that's that's lost somebody to suicide, you don't need to fix it. You can't fix it and you don't need to fix it. And sometimes like the words aren't even important. It's just having that physical presence that that person knows that you're there for them. Um, asking them sometimes can be helpful about like um, tell if if you didn't know their loved one that died by suicide, asking them about that.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Um, in in my experience, loss survivors don't want their loved ones to be known how they died, but they they have a life. They had a life that they live for however long, right? and they don't want their loved one only known that in terms of how they died. So telling stories about how that person lived um can be empowerful, empowering um some some of the answer to that question also depends on like how long ago was it or how recent was the loss, right? Um you know the more recent the loss is the more likely there's going to be a lot of emotional turmoil. Um and and depending on the nature of the relationship, um like asking somebody who's just lost somebody to suicide, what can I do? Like they're probably not going to be able to answer that, right? Not going to have the slightest idea. Um but if you have a good enough relationship with that person, sometimes just taking charge, you know, "I'm going to pick the kids up from school uh Tuesday and Thursday."  I'm going to whatever it might be is to just to do something that's practical for that person um that needs to get done but is probably so far removed from where that person's head is right now can be very very helpful and empowering. Um, asking you know if you have a story about that person right um telling that story I've heard many loss survivors especially if it's been a young person but just in general like You might know something about that person that that family member didn't know. And what a gift it can be to share that experience, right? That's a memory, right? And that can be so powerful.

Um there are some resources, you know, in terms of like what to say and what to do uh to help somebody um that's, you know, lost somebody to suicide. Um finding the right words are often unimportant though. If if we are there, if we show up, um oftentimes that can be very empowering.

Becky Miller:  I think any of us that have loved ones who have gone through that recognize that uh like you said sometimes just the presence of being there and acknowledging that it's awful and that you like you said that you don't have to fix it because I think that's a very common mistake that people make is they assume that they've got to fix it all, and that's something that can't be fixed.  

This has been a very important and needed conversation and we appreciate you being here. Before we wrap up, could you please share with us a few resources or organizations that our listeners should know about to help with suicide prevention?

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Yeah, absolutely. Uh so nationally 988 which is the suicide and crisis lifeline. You can call, text or chat. And I and I want to emphasize that it's called the suicide and crisis lifeline. You don't have to be in a current suicidal crisis to access it. Um, as the caller or text order, um, you decide what is a crisis, right? And so, it's like if if you're feeling stuck with something, you don't have to be experiencing thoughts of suicide. Um, I would encourage folks to give it a try, right? Um, their their goal is to listen and to come up with some strategy by the end of that conversation, right? Um and certainly if if somebody is experiencing thoughts of suicide, it can be a tool and a resource.  

Garra Lloyd-Lester:  Also, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention or AFSP um is a great resource. They're nationwide and um they do in September a lot of what they call out of the darkness walks which are a way to fund raise for research and and programs but also to bring people together uh that have lost somebody to suicide and they and they do walks at various lengths but there's all around the country. They have them in the fall and they have campus walks in the spring. Um and um there their website is a great resource. Um so it's the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. Other partner agencies that we have working relationships in New York and that are national are the National Alliance on Mentally Ill. Uh, most if not all states have a NAMI chapter and also the Mental Health Association. Um and so those are uh family and peer-run organizations um that that can be great resources. Um and all states have suicide prevention coordinators um listed sort of a point of contact that if you want to learn more about specifically suicide prevention resources and happenings in your state.  

Uh as with anything these days, if you Google your state's suicide prevention coordinator, it should come up. it. Um, and it's the suicide prevention resource center, which is a federal resource. Um, that would have that information as well as other great resources as well.

Stacy Griffin: Thank you so much. We always say that support systems don't just help us survive, they help us breathe through those hard days. Um, wherever we can get our support is appreciated. And this conversation has certainly been support, um, has kind of been a deep breath for many of us who need to be reminded that there is hope and there is help that can be had. Um if you are someone you love we're going to try this again because this is important. If you or someone you love is struggling, please know that you are not alone. we are with you and there is help available. Thanks again so much for coming and talking with us today, Garra. We appreciate it. Um, and thank you to all of you for listening and walking this journey with us.  

We hope this episode reminds you that your story matters and that you are never a burden. You are loved. You are needed. You are worthy. If you found this episode meaningful, please share it with someone in your circle. And as always, you can find resources and the full transcript on our website.

Until next time, be gentle with yourself and remember, you are worthy of joy. Your disease does not define your life. You do.

HELPFUL LINKS:

US National Suicide and Crisis Life Line 988 - You can call, text or chat. You don't have to be in a current suicidal crisis to access it. You decide what is a crisis for you.

List of suicide/crisis hotlines for other countries - https://blog.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines/

American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (AFSP) - https://afsp.org/about-afsp/ 

National Alliance on Mentally Ill (NAMI) - https://www.nami.org/ (Look for your state/local chapter)

Mental Health Association - https://mhanational.org/. (Look for your state/local chapter)